Overview
In this episode, Sam Sayer is joined by James (Jimmy) Warren, Owner of James Warren Photography. They discuss the importance of images in marketing, how to capture photos you can utilise, and working with people you get along with!
Highlights:
1:32- Jimmy’s services
3:58- Sam and Jimmy discuss their quick connection and shared values in understanding people and their audiences
4:00- Fear of photos
7:09- Capturing craftsmanship
12:00- Challenges of stock imagery
15:35- Importance of blogging and Personal Branding
20:30- Building trust with your photographer
20:47- Final thoughts
Sam Sayer 0:04
How are you doing, Jimmy?
James Warren 0:06
I’m alright, mate, I’m alright. Nice to see you again, Sam.
Sam Sayer 0:08
Yeah, and you. And is it Jimmy? Is it James?
James Warren 0:12
Professionally, it’s James. But yeah, I prefer Jimmy. It feels a lot lighter and a lot more community-based, I guess.
Sam Sayer 0:19
Do you know what? Just a quick tangent. A mate of mine is called Tetley. I’ve known Tetley for years. And we went on a stag do a couple of weeks ago. And he introduced himself and said, Hi, I’m James. I like. I never knew his actual name.
James Warren 0:36
Yeah, yeah. I chose it. I asked some people about my branding. Yeah, with James Warren Photography, and they said I should go down the more professional route of my name rather than using Jimmy. But yeah, I Yeah, no, it, it’s fine. I’ve been called other names as well, but no, Jimmy, Jimmy’s fine.
Sam Sayer 0:57
Do you know what I got in some bother the other day, because my name is Samuel, right? Yeah, no one ever calls me. Not even my parents called me that. And I filled something in as SAM, and it got rejected, damn it. J
James Warren 1:10
Oh, really
Sam Sayer 1:13
Anyway, we’re not here to talk about names. And so Jimmy, as Cilla Black says, who’s not her real name either. Who are you? What do you do, and where are you from?
James Warren 1:29
Now I’ve got Cilla Black, and I’m on a blind date. I am Jimmy Warren. I represent or own James Warren’s photography. I do commercial photography; I do personal branding photography. Also do events, and I also love doing well, including portraits, but property stuff I love doing as well, and extending my services to recently, doing, probably for next year, going into the wedding field.
Sam Sayer 2:05
Oh, yeah.
James Warren 2:06
And actually, another thing I’ve just done working with a client. You also know Lauren, one of her clients. I’m doing some photo restoration stuff as well for a book that he’s creating. Oh, so I’m working with Lauren on that. So, yeah, that’s only a small field, but it’s amazing seeing some of the stories that people have when they go back through the archives and see some of the family photos and stuff.
Sam Sayer 2:33
I bet, yeah.
James Warren 2:34
Bringing it to life in a book with a wonderful story they’ve got. It’s been a lovely little journey. It’s only a little, small part, but it’s, I mean, especially with some, you know, the history you got with your granddad and, you know, with the Jaguar stuff, you know, bringing them to life and being able to sort of recreate them so they’re not just necessarily stuck in the album, but you might be able to present them more in a visual way, like in a frame or on a wall, whatever. It’s quite a lovely little thing.
Sam Sayer 3:00
Do you know what I might need some help with that we have? There’s some stuff published in a book. A couple of years ago, I did some like quick pictures and scans, and it was just like I had no time to do it, and that was done. I’ll park that mentally.
James Warren 3:15
So yeah, the I mean commercial, in a professional sense, is more commercial branding because I love working with clients, some of which have had the opportunity with some of your clients. So I thank you for that, seeing the skill sets of people working every day and what they’re doing, and then broadening that out to an overview, which you can then see on a website plus other marketing material. And you know, we’re all willing to work to do the work and get the money in, but we all want to be there to enjoy it as well. And if I can see the skill set with these people doing it, whether it’s manufacturing, automotive, property, whatever, yeah, seeing the people behind the scenes that make this happen is, is what, one of the things I love.
Sam Sayer 3:32
Do you know what? I think this is why we connected so quickly. You know, the first person we met just, you know, something clicked straight away. The emotional side for me is the biggest bit. You know, when our discovery calls dig into that, we want to understand the people and their audiences. And you know, fundamentally, any business is in the business of sales, right? With no sales, you have no business people buy with love or fear, right? I love what they do. Or like, I need to do that thing or, you know, in marketing generally, it’s like, love or fear, yeah, you know, it needs to be enjoyment, and you know, that is crucial to get across.
James Warren 4:01
You know, I agree, you know, we’ve all only this planet. We only get one chance on this planet. We all want to make the most of it. Every day. You want to make the most of it; some days are better than us and stuff. But, and I think there’s also, there is a fear with when you hear some, an MD of a company says, oh, commercial director, managing, marketing manager says, Oh, we got a photographer coming in and we’re to do this. And the amount of people I’ve, I get it, I get it. You know, some don’t want their pictures taken. I get that. Some are nervous about it. But one of the things I like to try and do, or want to try and do, is, especially if your culture in the company is really good, show the asset itself of what these people can do and how they’re like because they’re the stories that people want to see, including the products or the services or whatever, because we all buy into people. I mean, that’s exactly why we’re talking now. Yeah, you know, we got a lovely little relationship, and it’s seeing you work with your team as well has been brilliant. And we all want to enjoy life as much as we can, so let’s make it easier when we’re working with people we like.
Sam Sayer 4:40
Yeah, sure. You know, like, for me, it’s capturing that rapport, that craftsmanship, you know, obviously depends on the industry and whatever. But, you know, capturing that detail, yeah, is magic, and I think it’s really important that it is captured. And, you know, whenever we talk about shoots, you know, no one likes their photo taken, no one does, yeah, but it’s not about you, right? It’s about people. It’s about, you know, emotion, you know, it’s about all those things. And, you know, yeah, no, no, I’m happy with all my stuff, right? But good, you know, I’ve learned to embrace the Do you know what? This is me; this is the real me. And, yeah, it’s important. You know, you’ve seen my journey on social media and stuff, yeah, from sort of skirting around a LinkedIn to, like, Do you know what this is me, and I’m not going to fit into some compartment, because that’s what professional or business should do. This is not me, right? And I think you, you know, totally captured that, and we had fun in our shoot, right? The last one, particularly, we did this, like, kind of weird and silly things, and like, yeah. And now we’re like, right? We don’t know how we can use them, but I can’t wait we can find a way to use them.
James Warren 7:09
And I think that for me, I mean, especially for your shoot, is you’ve already got an understanding of who you are. Yeah, what you represent, what your business wants to be, the people you want to work with, including within your business, and the culture you want to bring. And when you gave me the brief of, you know, let’s just have some fun with it, essentially. And that’s exactly what you and your business is. And we were trying things out. Some things might have worked; some things might not have worked for you. But the fact that I come away and felt that, I mean, this is another thing. I do it because I want to get involved with the people I’m working with and learn about the company, more often than not, every time I do a shoot, if I feel like I’ve become part of that family, I know that I’ve had a brilliant time doing it, which means the results will portray that in some shape or form. That’s what I love about it because, you know, there’s so many brilliant people out there doing what they’re doing, yeah, from all walks, from all levels within the business. And yeah, you wanted to show that in what you were doing. And, you know, seeing you work as well, and seeing you outside of the work. And you know, the things, the networking stuff that we do.
Sam Sayer 8:40
We don’t talk about those things, Jimmy!
James Warren 8:41
Okay, we don’t talk about those things. But okay, seeing you in a professional environment outside the office, but seeing how electric you are and how you communicate with other people, and already I’m thinking, right? This is what Sam’s like. I can see how he communicates with other people. We need to capture this because he is a key figure in a lot of the stuff that he’s doing with his business, but also with other business people he’s working with. Yeah, you can see them shine as well or get really into it because of the conversations you’re having, yeah, and that’s why I kind of, you know, just in the back of my mind, I observe. So right, okay, I’m gonna need to try and capture that when we go and do this shoot, or I might see something on the day, and I thought, right, they’re good with that person. So try and get a couple of shots with those guys. So from that point of view, I love it. And it’s the same kind of where the personal branding stuff as well, whether it’s someone just starting, or someone who you know is a lot further down the field, trying to catch your elements to them what they want to sort of portray with their business straight off can be tricky. But you know, there’s a there’s a process I have. We get to know these people, some of the people you know, we’ve we know you. Uh, mutually, and that’s the challenge, but that’s also the love of what I want to try and do and get across so they can start visually selling their business, and people get to know them better.
Sam Sayer 10:14
I mean, one thing I’ve had, you know, you just instantly put me at ease with it. I don’t feel nervous about it. And so do my team, you know, who were nervous, it’s like, but they’re like, Oh, that was fine. Like, yeah, it was great. And I think it’s that the really important thing is, you know, working with the right people as well. Like I said earlier, about, you know, I had these visions of, right? I’ve got to be this person on social media, and La, la fuck that, you know. I’m going to be myself, and you know it’s fine, the right people who will, you’ll vibe off and bring that out in yourself, right?
James Warren 10:49
Yeah, absolutely. Because, I mean, I’m the same, you know, if I’m, if I come across a, let’s say, a stiff client or customer, and you can’t, I don’t know, you’re always going to get it, but you can’t generate that kind of raptor. And the shoot will go fine, but, you know, in the back of your head, quite right with it, yeah, something’s missing. I mean, the other thing that I do have with the stuff I do, I’m always going to have my favourites with what I’ve done with the shoot. And it’s incredible how many times my favourites and nothing like what the client, yeah, which is interesting. This is why I then try and capture as much as I can within the moments we’ve got. Yeah, because you just, you know, I know the client won’t necessarily see it until they see the image and thought, Oh, do you know what I’ve got a story for that one? Now, nobody’s done that. Or, you know, we can use that further down, like you were saying, you’re not quite sure how you’re going to use some of yours yet, but it’s kind of give you, you know, it’s, you’ve got your portfolio.
Sam Sayer 11:55
We’ve got stacks of stuff, you know, two shoots now, right? So we’ve got stacks of stuff. Something I was saying the other day is that picking imagery for a website or marketing or anything you’re doing is one of the hardest bits, right? For us, it’s picking something that works for the headline, right? Okay, I have that connection, if there is, yeah, it just doesn’t work. Yeah? So it’s hard to find stock imagery that’s just right, yeah, you know, most of it’s American or European. It’s not the same as UK style, right?
James Warren 12:30
Correct.
Sam Sayer 12:31
I can’t pinpoint what it is that’s not right. But, you know, you can just tell it, just something doesn’t quite line up. And we always say, you know, in all our, you know, such our website proposals, we sort of have you considered photography because it can make, it can make or break any marketing. And, you know, the costs and time of finding stock imagery that you are never quite happy with versus we’ll just get a photo shoot a day shoot.
James Warren 12:58
It takes a lot of your time up, doesn’t it?
Sam Sayer 13:01
We spend a big chunk of time sourcing imagery, you know, sometimes, you know, there’s no call for a shoot, you know, or, yeah,
James Warren 13:09
Absolutely yeah.
Sam Sayer 13:11
It takes ages. It can make such a difference, make or break, you know, an advert or a web page or something, it really can.
James Warren 13:20
One of the things I’ve I’ve I’ve come to find working with, you know, fellow professionals and brilliant people like yourself and, you know, a couple of others, especially partners you work with to make what you’re doing the best it can be. I’ve got it. It’s not a proper analogy, but I’ve always seen that the website is the face of a company. Now it’s one avenue we’re seeing it, and that’s where you go to to look for information, buy stuff, whatever you’ve then got, which has all been bespokely designed, by the way, you’ve got the branding bespoke designed, yeah, if you’re doing it right, you’ve got the copy that’s been bespoke written, whether it’s AI, use slightly with AI, but you know, we know it has to be properly written with a copywriter, whatever. Yeah, um, all of that has been bespokely done, right? And then companies go and use stock with photography,
Sam Sayer 14:17
Yeah.
James Warren 14:19
You’ve gone there nearly the whole hog to get it all perfect for what your business represents, including the culture, the products and services. And then you’re using some other images that aren’t relatable to this country, yeah? Or, you know, stuff like, or even if you have got something, the colours don’t match the rest of the branding or imagery you’ve got. So we all put the website a little bit in kilter, and you’re like, just do the same with a photographer. Just find something you like, and get your portfolio collection.
Sam Sayer 14:50
We do this a lot. We’ll, we’ll sort of tone or grade images a bit so, like, it might be like tint, like, you know, if the brand’s blue, we’ll give a very slight blue tint.
James Warren 14:59
Absolutely.
Sam Sayer 14:59
It evens them out across the board, the stock stuff, right? And look, sometimes it’s not possible to have a photo shoot, you know, if you’re, if you’re one person startup, and you’ve got nothing, well, you know, let’s just say, look, the stock is not bad. No, it’s just hard to get right. And nothing beats your images. It just doesn’t, yeah, you know, I mean, we’ve for our blogs, we’ve got, you know, hundreds of different options now for things, for our blogs, that’s not stock images.
James Warren 15:37
I think working more with you and other people who are using blogs as part of their marketing campaign, I didn’t necessarily realise how important blogs are to continue what you guys are doing when you’re designing a website for a company, and for that client, to then have continuous stories about what they’re talking about, or what you know, using the blog, yeah, and have, and that’s probably even more important than the website stuff, to get that image right, yeah, because there’s talking about a particular project a particular time, whether it’s seasonal or whether it’s relating to the industry. Because, you know, we just had George Davis terse, for example, with all the rainport coming down, and he has to have an image there to fit that perfectly. Then, don’t get me wrong, you can find that, you know, via stock and stuff.
Sam Sayer 16:43
I can tell it’s gonna look like, it’s gonna look like so staged.
James Warren 16:48
But it may be, you know, we’re getting to know you and seeing how important these blogs can be for a lot of companies, especially if they’re coming out every week. I’m not saying that you need a photographer to keep on, you know, getting these, in these photos for that. But, yeah, I didn’t realise how important blogs are. Yeah, having an image to marry that with the copy is quite important.
Sam Sayer 17:11
I mean, you know, they said people buy with their eyes sort of thing. It’s true, you know, you interpret an image before you read the headline. And I think that we’ve seen the way blogging is changing. It’s, it’s always going to benefit SEO, right? Google, AI summaries, it’s, you know, there’s, there are questions there about how that works now, but Right? We are, you know, delivering content that’s useful for people, for our clients, you know, if we have a regular question about something, we create a blog that asks all about it, or we have done one for how to choose imagery. So, you know, if a junior joins our team, they’ve got a reference, you know, they’re not going to pick a lot and think, no, no, do it like this, you know, yeah, something useful. And then we, you know, split it chunks, put it on social media, it just goes in that circle, you know. So, it benefits in several different ways. And I think the main thing for me is it humanises everything. Yeah, you know, there’s a lot of faceless businesses out there. And, like I say, people buy from people. Founder-led marketing is the thing. You know, it has been for a little while now, but it’s essential now, you know, personal branding founder-led stuff. It’s, it’s what people will connect with. You know, they want, yeah, they want to learn, they want to be educated, they want to understand, want to sympathise, connect. Yeah, it’s all these things like, I say, I always go back to empathy. It’s a thing. Whether you have a need or a desire, empathy is going to tip it over the line ultimately.
James Warren 18:44
Agree, mate. Agree.
Sam Sayer 18:47
I think, you know, it’s also finding that the right things, you know, we were saying earlier about, you know, the right things and the right people as well. Yeah, no, we work with you, you know, we’ll always recommend you. There’s a couple of photographers we know who, like, say, wedding photography is a slightly different thing to product, you know? Yeah, you could do that all, you know. We can do lots of things as well, but sometimes you think this person is right for that job.
James Warren 19:11
Yeah, totally.
Sam Sayer 19:13
And I think I’ve certainly found with, you know, photography, it’s so important you connect with a person. Yeah, you get, get with your photographer because you just get the best results. Yeah, I’ve worked with some in the past you’ve just got kind of, like, no character, no personality, and like, how can you, how can you tease that out of people? It’s interesting.
James Warren 19:35
Yeah, I think, I think that’s, that’s something I’ve been very conscious of because I think I would be the same. You know, if you’re going to use a photographer for something you’re very passionate about, whether it’s your business or personal branding, you kind of find you need to find someone that you feel relaxed with, that they can because they end up becoming your shadow. Yeah, on that day. You need to just sit around. You know you need, you need as the customer, you need to feel relaxed. You just feel like you’re doing whatever you’re doing, and then it’s their job to work with you, but without them, knowing that you’re trying to get the shots that you need. Yeah, and sometimes you don’t both of you don’t know what shot that’s going to be, but then that’s when the ad hoc stuff ends up becoming the brilliant stuff because you got to know them.
Sam Sayer 20:29
I mean, I’ve loved that. You know, both times you’ve done shoots with us, you just spotted mad little things, like, right? That’s DeType. That’s like, this can be useful, yeah? I didn’t even notice that or hadn’t thought of that brilliantly enough. So, yeah, magic.
Good. Nice one. Thank you, Jimmy. Good to catch up. I’ve got two quick questions for you.
James Warren 20:52
Yep
Sam Sayer 20:54
If you were to have a packet of crisps, what flavour or brand would you get? What’s your favourite crisp flavour?
James Warren 21:00
Oooh, do you know what? I am quite into the; I can’t think what they’re called now, but the spicy, hot wotsits that Aldi does.
Sam Sayer 21:17
Oh, yeah, I know those.
James Warren 21:18
I can go straight through a bag of that, and I try and do it when the girls are in bed. Yeah? Easy, easy. Oh, I’ll tell you what I like, the other ones I do like are M&S ones. They’re a big bag, and I can’t believe what they call, but they’re all different shapes. But like the jalapeno. Not jalapeno and sour cream. That doesn’t make no, but I also like them. I can’t think what they call.
Sam Sayer 21:49
That’s you, like, highbrow, like, dinner party.
James Warren 21:54
Yeah, I’ve got, yeah, I’ve got a bit of highbrow. Then, okay, let’s go more basic, small packet if I was going to get one for the corner shop. I do like salt and vinegar McCoys.
Sam Sayer 22:07
Ooh, classic. Yeah, nice, nice, excellent. Second one, I know you’re a drum and bass man as well. What’s your what’s your top tune?
James Warren 22:20
My top tune, my top tune of all time, is a song called You Masculine, you from a band called Lamb Chop. Okay? Kind of an old country from the US in the early 2000s, Yeah. I got introduced from a mate of mine, and it was, yeah, I fell in love with the album called Nixon. And I don’t know what it is about that song, but there’s so many levels to it, yeah, but also makes me feel quite emotional. So that’s, that’s as soon as you said it, that’s the first one that comes to my head.
Sam Sayer 23:03
I’ll check it out. Yeah. Nice one. Good catch-up, mate. Yes, thank you, mate. Cool.
James Warren 23:09
Yes. Alright, man, take care. See you later.
Sam Sayer 23:12
Bye-bye.