Part 6 of our 10 Marketing Lies business owners are told! In this episode, Sam Sayer and Al Tepper discuss the importance of branding, personal branding, and why you need to invest in marketing.


0:20- Recap of the first 6 marketing lies business owners are told

0:42- Don’t spend any effort on branding!

2:12- The importance of branding for a business.

3:02- Coca-Cola’s branding journey.

4:27 – Understanding your value proposition.

6:02- Personal branding vs Corporate branding.

8:19- Finishing questions.


Sam Sayer 0:05

How are you doing Al, it’s good to see you mate!

Al Tepper 0:08

Brilliant Sam, how are you mate?

Sam Sayer 0:09

Good thanks. All good. It’s been like been ages since the last time we caught up.

Al Tepper 0:14

Absolutely ages.

Sam Sayer 0:17

So where are we up to. We’re up to up to number seven. Marketing lies.

Al Tepper 0:20

Yes, number seven marketing lies told. So just for everybody else who hasn’t listened first marketing I was if you build it, they’ll come second, if you launch it, they’d support you. The third is everybody loves you don’t worry about it. The fourth is marketing and sales is easy. Five, you just need to sell more and harder six don’t spend time and money on marketing. And the seventh lie told is definitely don’t spend any effort on brand. I love this one. I know. It’s cracking. Why would you spend money on colouring stuff in?

Sam Sayer 0:55

Yeah, why would you do that!

Al Tepper 0:57

Yeah, exactly. Nicely done. And there’s a DeType on behind you as well look at that. So why would you spend money. The fact is, most of us are operating in crowded competitive spaces. And if your brand isn’t remarkable, no one will care. And what that means practically, is that if no one’s heard of you, and no one knows about you, no one’s aware of what you do or what your differentiator is, if you do not exist to them. Why are they going to talk to you? Why are they going to pick up your your core? Why are they going to they’ve got you are literally dead to them, you don’t exist. So it’s going to make getting that first phone call harder, it’s going to make getting that trust built harder, it’s going to make, you know, getting them over the line for that first project harder. Whereas, whereas if you have a brand, everything gets better because brands are there to help people determine how to feel about a business. And marketing is there to help people determine what actions to take around a business.

So difference with brand and marketing is brand is about feeling and marketing is about action. What do I mean? Brand tells you how that business perceives itself and how they want you to perceive it. So they automatically give you a state of being a packaged up mentality that they want you to have when you think about them for a reason. So for example, Coca Cola don’t want their brand to be thought of as a sugary drink. And if they did, it would be Coca Cola. And their strapline would be a sugary drink. Because that would be the best way of explaining what they are. Now they don’t want to bang that drum for various reasons. And so they bang other drums it’s the real thing. Yeah. Or taste the feeling which I think is their latest

Sam Sayer 2:59

There brand is a lifestyle and freedom.

Al Tepper 3:02

That’s right. That’s right yeah, so their brand their whole brand is about life and family it’s nothing actually their brand is actually very little to do with a beverage and that’s why that’s the whole Christmas thing right there the whole you know holidays that come with that is. Yeah, well absolutely I mean Father Christmas he’s only red because of Coca Cola and by the way Coca Cola have not changed their logo the you know the script logo since 1895. That tells you something

Sam Sayer 3:34

If it ain’t broke.

Al Tepper 3:36

Well, if it ain’t broke it’s only going to breed familiarity and so people trust the coke brand one way or another because it’s consistency alone. And so every business owner out there ask yourself how your brand is making you money and if your brand itself if your logo, if your colours, if your fonts, if your structure of your website, if the way you approach things, your values all of these things that kind of congregate to create your brand if that’s not clearly actively generating ROI, you are doing it wrong.

Sam Sayer 4:13

Absolutely. Let’s be clear as well. A logo is a logo not a brand and it’s important to establish the most the brand is the emotional demonstration of your business.

Al Tepper 4:25


Sam Sayer 4:27

Understanding your value proposition you know your overall proposition it could be could be slightly different marketing message and your value prop but yeah, getting those right. Your vision, mission and values. You’ve got to nail them before you do anything else.

Al Tepper 4:46

How can you how can you tell people how to feel or what to feel if you don’t know what you want them to feel? Yeah, I mean, you can’t just guessing you know, two things to say very quickly. The first thing is, if you ask most Chief Marketing officers around the world of decent sized companies, they will tell you two things. First of all, sales is a part of marketing. And secondly, if you want to lower your cost of sales, build a brand, because they know that if you build a brand over time, your recognition will go up, and trust will go up. And so cost of every sale goes down, because people have heard of you, there’s less risk, you’re easier to work with no brainer. And the second thing, the second thing, I’ve now forgotten, because that’s where my brain works. And if Stuart Brand, don’t stop.

Sam Sayer 5:32

I was gonna say, I for years held back on being the figurehead and my brand, although it was me in the very just me and then a couple of us and now there’s eight of us, but you know, I will resist it. No, it should be DeType talking, not me. Until I heard a podcast I forget who podcast was with this. No, no, no, but you think of you Richard Bransons and the Steve Jobs. Well, they raise their profiles, and the company raised with them, and they could do something different. But the company is still out there, it wasn’t dropping.

Al Tepper 6:01

You know, personal brand and corporate brand have to play together? Because people buy from people. So corporate brands great. But who here would trust any corporate brand to babysit your kids? Or pack your parachute? You can’t answer you would trust them. Because they’re not real. They don’t. Brands, here’s a secret for everyone. companies, brands aren’t real. They don’t actually physically exist as human beings, right? So they can’t do stuff. So that means that avatars of humans, they are reflections of us. And so the reality is, if you’re not giving people a reflection of you, then they’re not going to see anything. They’re just going to see whatever it is you do, and it’s going to be price based, cheapest, cheapest wins. Because there’s no other conversation now the valley?

Sam Sayer 6:52

Absolutely. Do you know what, we’ve had a real shift in our positioning and marketing recently. And, you know, to the point where we want to be the company that like, I’ve got to work with these guys. I love what they do. I’ve got to work with not just oh, yeah, they’re not capable, competent, you know. And I think that is the difference in the brand, right? You know, as I think, as it can be worked in brand new marketing, we were stupid. I’ve always had a little bit of background, about different clients, but actually making our brand more empowering and engaging.

Al Tepper 7:23

Yeah, but you’ll get, you’ll get people coming to you because they’ll have heard of you. Or your the dot dot dot guys. Oh, are you the agency that focus on X, Y, Z? I mean, that’s the point. That’s the point. If you’re not getting that if you’re not getting people coming to you, because they noticed you’re creative. And it just stood out and spoke to them, then you’re just you’re definitely losing money, definitely losing revenue on the table.

Sam Sayer 7:51

Nice. Nice. So that’s it be bold.

Al Tepper 7:56

And build a brand. Don’t be afraid to, because I’ll leave. I’ll leave everyone listening with this thought. You’re either building your brand, or you’re helping your competition build, there’s absolute 100% of time you’re building someone’s brand. So it may as well be yours. You know, why would you build anyone else’s?

Sam Sayer 8:12

Nice. Thank you, mate. Appreciate it. As always. I look forward to catch up soon.

Al Tepper 8:19

I’ve got a question for you. Before we go. The magic question. So I’ve got a question for you this time. Tell us something amazing about you.

Sam Sayer 8:31

You’ve hit me right in the discomfort zone. Wow, something amazing.

Al Tepper 8:36

Tell us something amazing about you. Now, I’ll tell you I ask this a lot. And everyone struggles when asked the question, because we’re all humble people. But then everybody comes up with something. So go on, what do you got for us?

Sam Sayer 8:45

You asked me this. I think when we first had our discussion. I remember now trying to think. But no, it’s a great question. And actually, I can’t remember what I said then. I think I might have even avoided the question. I don’t know. I think the main thing about me is actually this is very much on topic, actually. I’m quite an emotional person. But I’ve learned to rein things in. I think it’s the empathy side of things.

Al Tepper 8:45

Ah brilliant.

Sam Sayer 8:49

I’m quite good at the sort of linear and the abstract so I can bring the two together, which is fairly unique, I think. Yeah, yeah.

Al Tepper 9:25

It’s brilliant.

Sam Sayer 9:26

I work a lot of creative’s who are sort of out there and kind of, but then delivery is a bit shaky, or people who deliver bang on the line, but it needs a bit of creativity. But I think I’ve managed to blend a bit of the two.

Al Tepper 9:38

Well done. Well, no, that is amazing. And it is, you know, to be able to sit in both camps. Right and left brain is a real skill. So well done. Yeah, it’s impressive.

Sam Sayer 9:48

Oh, that was Yeah, perhaps i need to put something out there.

Al Tepper 9:51

And the reason I ask it is because it’s discomforting because we beat ourselves up an awful lot and we very rarely champion ourselves. So you know, you should feel pleased about that, in fact, you should probably write about it on LinkedIn.

Sam Sayer 10:03

You know what my great grandfather taught maths and art? Kind of unholy combination, right?

Al Tepper 10:11

Well, it’s obviously in the genes and you’re just

Sam Sayer 10:14

So you know, it’s more a case of needs and must sort of thing. But, you know, that culminated in I guess, in me ultimately.

Al Tepper 10:23

Yeah, well done.

Sam Sayer 10:25

Awesome. Thanks, dude. I’ll catch you next time

Al Tepper 10:27